These Days: Play

Tom Fudge
KPBS Radio - San Diego
October 2001 - Part 2

Tom: We are joined by Rick Edwards. He is a physical education teacher at Green Elementary Athletics and Academics Magnets School in San Carlos. He joins us over the phone. Rick Edwards thanks for being on “These Days”.

Rick: Hi good morning how are you? Hello Melinda, nice to hear you. We know one another through the profession.

Tom: Really, could you tell us what kind of contacts you have had. At your school Rick, do you use any of Melinda’s techniques? Any of her designs?

Rick: Oh, of course. We have discussed briefly your program, Melinda, Peaceful Playgrounds. My staff and I have observed in some of the Escondido Schools the program in action. So we have developed what we consider to be a very organized, safe, recess program as well.

Tom: Tell us what some of those observations have been. We talked a bit with Melinda about her business and what she does. What have you seen in these different types of playgrounds?

Rick: What I have seen is students working together with one another to create a successful experience. That could be that they are discussing rules, or coming to an agreement. Equally as important is playing by the the same rules and using those. As well as having conflict managers, who are older students helping the younger students, to help solve problems and create play, as much as play is possible.

Tom: Conflict managers, Melinda it sounds like there is a certain amount of staffing. I guess you said this before there is a certain amount of staffing that goes along with your concept for a good playground. Rick mentions conflict managers and play facilitators. Can you explain that a little bit?

Melinda: Conflict managers are students, typically older students. So rather than going to the playground supervisor, who again needs to be supervising children on the playground in terms of safety; if having an argument they can go to these playground conflict mediators who will help them to solve the problem. The mediators would talk them through what happened, the problem that they are having, and assist them in coming to a solution, should they need assistance.

Rick: Exactly. We haven’t formalized the conflict managers. We have given everyone the opportunity to solve their problems by the simple rock, paper, scissors decision. This encourages kids to have conversation, and understand that if there is a problem, instead of arguing about it for 5 min and losing time of play to use the rock, paper, scissors method.

Tom: Just like flipping a coin to solve an argument.

Rick: Exactly. It is working out very well. Within our four square games for example we designate the first person in line as the judge. Therefore during the game of four-square everyone will get the chance to participate in the judging position, if they are needed.

Tom: When you talk about four-square and making one of the kids a judge, what age kids are you talking about here?

Rick: This is 1st grade which is 6 years, old through 5th grade.

Tom: Tell us a little more about your school, it sounds so interesting. This is Green Elementary Athletics and Academics Magnets School. How your magnets school is different from a typical public school?

Rick: We offer physical education to all of our students on a daily basis. What that takes is 3 credentialed physical education teachers. With both a bachelors and masters degrees in physical education. We create a schedule where each grade level is going to athletics for 30-40 minutes a day. Each grade level is broken up into 3 smaller units, and those kids rotate around the units on a 3 week schedule.

Tom: I am assuming that physical education everyday is unusual. It is not something that happens in every California school?

Rick: No, we are unique. As you know, prep time can be designated for physical education, but that doesn’t offer a daily product. Our specific program is probably the only one in the whole state. I haven’t heard of another one. We are working at the elementary level, but we have a middle school format in terms of scheduling and specialized because of physical education.

Tom: One question I want to direct to you, because I think you have an interesting answer to it is, what were the origins of physical education in the US? How did this type of curriculum get started?

Melinda: Physical education in the beginning was implemented in respect to the importance of developing both the body and the mind. We saw a real increase in physical education and its importance when President Kennedy was in office. Having to do with the response to the Cuban crisis and realizing we had a nation, and their fitness levels were low. There was tremendous concern over whether we had a fit nation of soldiers that could defend the country. He implemented the presidents physical fitness award that has been with us ever since.

Tom: That is interesting because we have a sort of Cold War origin to physical education. Well Rick Edwards, what does physical education become at your school? Are your kids playing competitive games? Are they riding exercise bikes? What does it become?

Rick: It is taking the shape of what we like to call developmentally appropriate. Younger children are learning the basis of movement at the grades of kindergarten and first grade. We are teaching movement in terms of their loco-motor skills: skip, hop, jump, and run. These skills, as they get older, will then assist them to be better in their sports that they may choose to play. If we look at the first three units that we have here at Green Elementary, we have catching and throwing, spatial awareness, and a tumbling class. This is offered for K-2nd grade. We believe that these are building blocks for the children as they grow and become older.

Tom: What about competitive sports? Do they get worked into the schedule at some point?

Rick: They do with a modification. We believe in a ball for every child, or in other words, on the academic side, a book for every child. Well a piece of equipment in physical education for every child. So we are reducing the number of children waiting in line to play, which is a major goal here. Specifically to the sport games you were referring to, reducing the number of children on the field at one time. So in soccer for example, a unit of soccer would include lots of skill development, but it would also include possibly a two on two game on a smaller field. So in other words, modify the sport to allow more activity for more children.

Tom: Melinda, you used to be a physical education teacher. In fact you just told me during the break, that you were the state chair of an organization of physical education teachers in California. I am just wondering what kind of concerns do Phys Ed teachers have about their field, and dealing with kids? What were some of the hot issues you were dealing with when you were with that state organization?


Melinda: One of the hottest issues had to do with the situation that Rick was describing, the concern that children are not receiving the required amount of daily physical education. The requirement is in education code is that 200 minutes of physical education each two weeks. Across the state what we see is that less than 5 % of schools are served by physical education teachers, like Rick, that are credentialed to do so. Instead, we see that the classroom teachers are offering PE. And some do a good job of that, but in many cases we see that children are not receiving physical education at all. Again that has to do with the fact that in the credentialing program, here in CA, they are not required to take even a single PE class. That has changed in the last few years, so we have a staff of teachers across this state, that have not had any background or training in this curricular area.

Tom: Do either of you have any sense that with this focus on reading and math and basic skills in education, education reform if you will, that PE much like artistic ed and music ed is not considered to be core to a child’s school experience?

Melinda: Yes. The core subjects here in CA are reading, math, social studies and science. While physical education is required in Ed code, it isn’t considered one of the four core subjects. Yes, I think the increase in academics… the emphasis in math and reading, I would agree that that is an important emphasis; at the same time I believe that it isn’t wise to eliminate physical education or recess altogether.

Tom: What do you think about that Rick Edwards?

Rick: I agree with Melinda, that physical education is one of the last classes of the day to be planned. There are many reasons for that. Classroom teachers, especially in the elementary core, are working very hard to improve academics. I would like to suggest that the school districts should start taking a look at how they can bring in more physical education teachers that are specialized to do that job. We are aware that the PET bill, which is a federal bill offering money to states, to improve physical education programs within their state. That bill can help us improve physical education, hire more people and literally get children moving.

Tom: I asked you before the break about the use of competitive games in PE. I think that use of competitive games, many years ago, was the reason why so many parents and kids today remember hating gym. They were the last person to be picked for the soccer team. I am wondering how gym and PE teachers today are dealing with those issues and those self-esteem issues of those who are just bad at sports?

Rick: CA has created physical education framework that school districts are now adopting and putting into performance standards. The physical education framework for Ca, offers ideas for how to create: movement, knowledge, and skill; how to create self esteem and awareness; and how to create an appropriate social atmosphere within lessons. When you talk about the self esteem that children can gain or lose, it is all based on how the teacher will set up teams. You can pass out numbered cards and you can create teams that have no affiliation to skill and to who is the most favorite or popular in your class. Now you have created a very quick, easy, and self esteem safe way of making teams.

Tom: What about you Melinda, is this a sensitivity or sensibility that you have in designing play areas?

Melinda: Basically in the teaching of safe play on the playground and playground procedures, we teach that no child should be selected last. There are many other options that you could implement; Rick has described some of those, so that no child should have the embarrassment of being chosen last. That is certainly an inappropriate activity that should no longer occur.

Tom: One thing that occurs to me when I think of physical education, Rick, is the important thing about phys ed is to make people healthy. To get them involved in healthful activities so that their hearts work well throughout the rest of their lives. You really don’t need competitive sports to do that.

Rick: No, you don’t. What we are working for in our lessons is at least 50 % of our time in moderate to vigorous exercise. In physical education at Green Elementary School, in gymnastics for example, I am timing my kids and stopping my watch as kids stop movement and then starting again as we start. This could be for a simple disciplinary action or it could be for teaching a specific skill or correcting a skill that I see happening. I tell my kids that out of a 40 minute period we need 20 minutes or better of moderate to vigorous exercise. That is our goal. It works well. Students respond well to it. They know have a good knowledge of what is needed in their day, 20 min or better of moderate to vigorous exercise, to keep them healthy.

Tom: Not too long ago I was talking with some of the physical education professors here at San Diego State, and one of them believes that in middle school and high school grade levels, physical education should look a lot like the physical activities that adults do. In other words the emphasis should be on things like aerobics or weight training. Now you are not at that level, but is that what is happening in a lot of high school physical education courses?

Rick: I have heard the opinion, in general philosophy I agree with that. But again modifying activity for children to be successful is probably at the core of lesson planning for physical education. Whether you are in elementary, middle school, or high school. Motivating students in high school, I imagine, takes on a different challenge than what I have, in making their activity more adult-like, and making them feel like they are in the adult arena is a good motivator.

Tom: Let’s go to Dianne, in Escondido.

Melinda: I wondered if you could go back to the elementary schools and their recess, specifically Atlanta. If they have discontinued recess, have they shortened the school day? Do they have indoor, in-climate recess? The bottom line is the kids need a break, so what are they doing instead?

Melinda: In Atlanta, what they did is they eliminated recess. Instead what you see is a physical education period added. They are saying PE and recess are one-and-the-same. However, I see them as two distinctly different activities for two distinctly different purposes. One having to do with motor skill development, and another has to do with their social skill development and giving children the choices that they need.

Tom: Marshall from Kearny Mesa.

Marshall: It is interesting some of the things you guys have been talking about. You are right on. We discovered that the recess opportunity is one where kids have choices of games and activities that are going on. They completely want to play and get involved. We find that 2/3rd of the school gets involved in capture the flag, and dodge-ball and flag football. We find that the creating and sustaining of the games, is something that they themselves, without the PE, don’t know how to do. When we were kids there was always a game going on, on the playground. But now the kids don’t know the games. We find that that kind of initialization really gets them going and transforms the playground.

Tom: What kind of games do you teach them how to play?

Marshall: Just the good old-fashioned ones, kickball. You would be amazed how many 3rd, 4th, and 5th graders don’t know how to play kick ball. Until they are encouraged, shown, and invited. Our philosophy is that everyone is included, everyone has fun, and it is an emotionally safe environment. It is a phenomenal social dynamic that goes on. Now they can learn to be a team and resolve their own conflicts within those parameters. It does take that, back to the PE question, charismatic adult to inspire and encourage kids to try those things.

Tom: Melinda, what do you think about that?

Melinda: I think he is right. What we find is that in schools that do not have PE, on your typical playground, we find that 15% of those children are actively involved in what we call purposeful play. Some sort of game activity. We want game activity because in games children are usually having fewer problems. They are not running around, chasing, kicking, and getting into arguments. If you have a good quality PE program, or he suggested he had a play facilitation program or a program like Peaceful Playgrounds, where you are teaching children rules and games. We find that that number goes up dramatically to between 85-90% of the children are getting involved in games and game activities. When we were talking earlier about fitness, we want to increase movement in children to get them more active and increase their physical fitness. This becomes a really important point.

Tom: Do you find that there are a lot of kids out there who simply don’t know how to play kickball and need to be taught? That was an interesting observation from our caller. Perhaps the art of some of these old games, and the art of learning them and doing them are being lost?

Melinda: I think there is a lot of truth to that statement. In addition to not being taught the games, playground conflicts often times have to do with the fact that Mrs. Smith’s class is playing by a certain set of rules and Mr. Jones’s class is playing by another set of rules. So it is no surprise that children have conflicts and difficulties on the playground. So it is important and physical education can certainly enhance this, that they do receive that instruction.

Tom: I’d like to thank our guests for joining us today. We have been talking about play with Melinda Bossenmeyer and Rick Edwards. Dr. Bossenmeyer who is a former teacher who is now a playground design consultant and owner of a company called Peaceful Playgrounds. Thank you very much for coming in.

Melinda: It was a real pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Tom: Mr. Edwards is a physical education teacher at Green Elementary Athletics and Academics Magnet School in San Carlos. Thanks very much.

Rick: If you have a moment, I would like to invite listeners if they are interested in seeing an Athletics and Magnet School in action to come out to Green Elementary School in San Carlos. Have a look and be a visitor and see what is going on out here.

Tom: Melinda had one more thing as well.

Melinda: I’d like to give my website address. If you would like to observe Peaceful Playgrounds in any of the local schools, on our website we have an information button, and we would be happy to give you that. It is www.peacefulplaygrounds.com.

Tom: Thank you, you have been listening to “These Days” on KPBS.

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